Changeset: 131693517
бул. Ботевградско шосе
Closed by Termininja
Tags
changesets_count | 1011 |
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created_by | iD 2.24.0 |
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | Maxar Premium Imagery |
locale | en-US |
Discussion
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Comment from foreigner037
As commented on the previous changeset, I would please ask to revert the changes and leave this section as it is. This discussion has been had multiple times already and the previous version is what was the result of it. Of all the possible options, highway=trunk_link is the most inappropriate one.
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Comment from Termininja
I don't see any reason for this. The edited section is part of Botevgradsko shose. Reverting the changes will be reason for breaking the path. The changes are absolutely correct.
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Comment from foreigner037
By the same logic I can say that it was absolutely correct before. Do you maintain the national road network by chance? From your edit history I see its mostly rivers and streams, atleast the recent stuff. While you personally may not see a reason, that doesn't automatically mean your edits are "absolutely correct" as you put it. As mentioned, the current tagging was a result of a lenghty discussion from last year. If anything it's not even correct on a technical level, since trunk_link is not the correct tag to be used here. Additionally, I have provided you proof for the contrary. Regarding breaking the path, there are also relations and superrelations, which you conveniently did not modify. You can create a relation for the boulevard if you so insist on keeping "the path". By the same logic, not reverting the changes is a reason for breaking the motorway path.
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Comment from Termininja
Actually you didn't provide any proof of this what you talk. What is discussed before is not important because it is in the history. Important is what is the current state of this bulevard. And I''ll not lose time to discuss something which everyone can check by himself (there is a marking of this path which is public for all). The old edit was obviously wrong, the current one is better, maybe not perfect how you said, but it is more correct from the old one. If you can improve it more, grеat and go, and thank you in advance, but:
1. Don't brake bul. Botevgradsko shose on two parts
2. Don't make the bulevard way a highway -
Comment from foreigner037
Your behavior seems arrogant and not very constructive. I did provide proof (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7076758,23.4495623,3a,37.5y,55.36h,84.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skiYwr7cWfhZ3XD1f7dX3Mg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=bg), but you seem to never have bothered to check it. You also have not provided any proof, come to think of it. Again, you are in no position to determine what is better or worse, when the community has agreed on something. I am reverting this changeset and please stop changing it in the future.
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Comment from foreigner037
As a compromise, I suggest using the alt_name tag. This way your boulevard won't be broken and you won't break all the other relations with you change.
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Comment from Dimitar155
The 0 km milestone is indeed between the two parallel bridges of the Sofia Ring Road but the edited stretch of road doesn't require toll or vignette. Toll is required for HGV and buses after the slip lane towards Kazichene. Vignette for regular cars is not required until the junction for Dolni Bogrov. The sign for motorway is also after the junction for Dolni Bogrov.
I agree that on paper the motorway starts at the Ring Road but in reality it starts after the Dolni Bogrov junction.
I think that it would be fine to keep the road tagged as highway=trunk + toll:hgv=yes + toll:bus=yes up to Dolni Bogrov junction in both directions. The motorway relation can stay as it since it represents the route of the motorway according to the official data.
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Comment from foreigner037
According to this: https://www.varna24.bg/novini/Bylgaria/Start-na-avtomagistrala-Hemus-v-otsechkata-okolo-Sofiya-209298
the motorway starts in km 0 under II-18. I am fine with having bicycle=yes, toll:hgv=yes, toll:bus=yes, alt_name=Botevgradsko shose (that is questionable since I can't find any information that the blvd. continues after II-18) and any other tags that might be needed, but I instist on highway=motorway. Even the cloverleaf is named "PV Hemus" according to the official route proposition.
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Comment from Dimitar155
Botevgradsko shose continues east after the highway all the way to Han Bogrov (see http://isofmap.bg). It used to be continuos until Hemus was built around 2011.
I've added the toll tags.
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Comment from foreigner037
I see, thank you for the link. In that case, the wikipedia entry for the boulevard is not correct and needs to be updated. I feel like there are some other changes thet could be useful in this area so I would like to run them with you.
1. Junction names, which I am currently in the process of researching. I've already done all the other junctions on Hemus (lanes, surface, speed limit, destinations, destination colour and etc. Extremely tedious and timeconsuming job, but I think necessary), only these two are left.
2. Delete the duplicate boulevard naming. Does it pass through the roundabout or through the motorway junction?
3. Change the links from highway=trunk to highway=motorway_link. I don't know where to exactly but maybe the crossing near the EKO petrol station after the motorway junction is a good divider. -
Comment from foreigner037
Regarding point 3, I think the situation is similar to the Shumen - East link road we had a discussion about some weeks ago, which is why that solution is also applicable here.
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Comment from Dimitar155
1. I'm not sure what's missing for this point.
2. The name of the boulevard passes through the roundabout.
3. Just did it. I've also merged the last section of dual carriageway since there is only one carriageway. -
Comment from foreigner037
Thanks. What I meant with 1. is that I'm not sure if the names I put there some months ago are correct. I used to put the destination as the name before I realised that they actually have names. If I can't find anything I'll just leave them as is.
Out of curiosity, if the boulevard passes through the roundabout, how is the westbound direction routed? Does the traffic drive under the motorway and join it from the parking of Jumbo? -
Comment from Dimitar155
On paper, they should use the road that goes around the whole Jumbo Plaza (which is the public road). In practice they pass it as you said or they use the junction.
Of course, this is a temporary solution until the new junction is built (the current large one will be demolished along with the road leading to it, bul. Botevgradsko shose will become straighter and a new smaller version of the junction will be built near the SE corner of Jumbo Plaza. You can see it in Sofia's Master plan (https://gis.sofiaplan.bg:3344/webappbuilder/apps/4/). -
Comment from foreigner037
Huh, very interesting, hope they get around to doing it soon. I'm currently in the process of adding more details to both junctions and fixings things as lane counts, speed limits and etc. Apart from the junction names I think we should consider this closed and revisit it once there is something to change.
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Comment from Dimitar155
Sorry, I've forgot to reply to the first part of your previous message.
> Thanks. What I meant with 1. is that I'm not sure if the names I put there some months ago are correct. I used to put the destination as the name before I realised that they actually have names. If I can't find anything I'll just leave them as is.
I don't know if they have names. Personally, I would leave them without names since junction "Хемус" doesn't sound right.
> Huh, very interesting, hope they get around to doing it soon.
It won't happen anytime soon. The current junction is only about 10 years old. Maybe in 20-30 years if the current one becomes in very bad condition they may build the new one.
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Comment from foreigner037
Okay. I'll ask around some more and if I don't find anything I'll either leave them with Sofia/Dolni Bogrov as they were or just delete the name altogether.
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Comment from Termininja
Foreigner037, you probably don't know the priority when read the signs. I don't understand why you want to keep wrong and false information here. If the link above is proof for your word, then check this is proof that you are wrong https://www.google.com/maps/@42.7089679,23.4657329,3a,75y,107.76h,84.14t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sDd_xodY47ulbagAURSNU3g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=bg
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