Changeset: 133306639
railroad start_date
Closed by zluuzki
Tags
changesets_count | 4571 |
---|---|
created_by | iD 2.25.1 |
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | Bing Maps Aerial;USGS Topographic Maps;Custom (https://elevation.nationalmap.gov/arcgis/services/3DEPElevation/ImageServer/WMSServer?%20STYLES=&BBOX={bbox}&CRS={proj}&FORMAT=image/png32&HEIGHT={height}&LAYERS=3DEPElevation:Hillshade%20Gray&REQUEST=GetMap& |
locale | en-US |
resolved:help_request:fixme_tag | 4 |
warnings:outdated_tags:incomplete_tags | 7 |
Discussion
-
Comment from CurlingMan13
What source did you use to add these non-existent railways? There is no evidence on the ground of some of these railways that do not meet the definition of "abandonded". Please do not add items that have no trace or remnants on the ground. There are no ties, rails, signals, etc., and instead it was largely overbuilt and replaced by buildings, roadways and other features. These should be removed from OSM since they no longer exist, but should be added to OHM instead. Adding items for "historical" purposes isn't permitted on OSM, and I know we have had this discussion before about you adding non-existent items, and continuing to add them back.
Where did you get the start dates for these items? They definitely wouldn't appear on an elevation map.
Additionally, I suspect this was an import, but I digress on this point for now.
-
Comment from zluuzki
I didn't add new abandoned lines, I added primarly start_dates. The few abandoned ways i've added only close minor gaps within the old route, and are tagged as "razed" - this means "gone without traces", so no wrong tagging.
"These should be removed from OSM since they no longer exist" -
I don't think so. Here are my reasons: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:Hiausirg/Razed_RRs
"isn't permitted on OSM"
It is. There is a guideline which discourages it, but guideline =/= rule. And there are a LOT of reasons to map them like I did - they speak stronger than this guide (IMO)."Where did you get the start dates for these items?"
From Wikipedia. A single fact from a text is certainly not copyrightable."Additionally, I suspect this was an import"
??? Import of what?There are many locations like https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=17/28.18454/-82.72033 where traces are obviously visible, yet you deleted them anyway. Therefore, I reverted your changeset.
(and stop blaming my manual review as bad or even as a lie, your's certainly not better) -
Comment from zluuzki
And to make something clear here: It is not my intention to have mapped every track that was once somewhere.
For example here, an abandoned yard: https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=18/33.80652/-84.45231
All side/yard tracks were removed, and a part was overbuilt. I deleted all ways on the overbuilt part, and left them were they aren't overbuilt. It would get too crowded otherwise.Suggestion for a compromise: Leave abandoned main routes only as a single way (which shouldn't disrupt anyone), delete all overbuilt side (spur/yard) tracks.
I think this is a fair solution for both sides. -
Comment from woodpeck
Abandoned railway lines are a constant bone of contention in OSM but one thing that is absolutely clear is that lines that have been built over - i.e. where absolutely no visbile trace remains, even to the trained eye - have no place in OSM. That would apply e.g. to https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1151341862 which should be deleted along with all similar lines.
-
Comment from CurlingMan13
It's interesting to note, that even Zluuzki agrees that non-existent rails shouldn't be mapped because it becomes too crowded when overlaid with existing items. They mention it here and in their diary/page.
"I deleted all ways on the overbuilt part, and left them were they aren't overbuilt. It would get too crowded otherwise."
But yet, these types of ways keep getting added back, and occasionally connected to roadways with railway crossing nodes being placed where there are none.
- Tampa and Thonotosassa Railroad (1151341859), v1
- Clearwater Subdivision (1151341860), v1
- Clearwater Subdivision (1151341861), v1
- Orange Belt Railway (1151341862), v1
- 1151341863, v1
- Orange Belt Railway (1151341864), v1
- 1151341865, v1
- Orange Belt Railway (1151341866), v1
- 1151341867, v1
- 1151341868, v1
- 1151341869, v1
- Agricola Road (10948893), v8
- Goat Road (10953061), v9
- Tampa and Thonotosassa Railroad (10970539), v8
- Orange Belt Railway (11016198), v8
- Florida Central Railroad (11199828), v16
- 11218543, v8
- Trinity Boulevard (11229976), v18
- 11241134, v9
- 1st Avenue Southeast (11249799), v12
Relations (4)
- 10710932581, v1
- 10710932582, v1
- 10710932583, v1
- 10710932584, v1
- 10710932585, v1
- 10710932586, v1
- 10710932587, v1
- 10710932588, v1
- 10710932589, v1
- 10710932590, v1
- 10710932591, v1
- 10710932592, v1
- 10710932593, v1
- 10710932594, v1
- 10710932595, v1
- 10710932596, v1
- 10710932597, v1
- 10710932598, v1
- 10710932599, v1
- 10710932600, v1
Welcome to OpenStreetMap!
OpenStreetMap is a map of the world, created by people like you and free to use under an open license.
Hosting is supported by Fastly, OSMF corporate members, and other partners.
https://openstreetmap.org/copyright | https://openstreetmap.org |
Copyright OpenStreetMap and contributors, under an open license |