Changeset: 68986296
Attention! Hello, I'm Gorbs from the Philadelphia area. I know many people might look at my edits/changeset because this is a MAJOR change, but this is a TEST to see whether this will replace the current parentheses along MTA stations. (Think (1) ) Thx!
Closed by charlesgorby
Tags
changesets_count | 58 |
---|---|
created_by | iD 2.14.3 |
host | https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit |
imagery_used | Mapbox Satellite;OpenStreetMap (Standard) |
locale | en-US |
Discussion
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Comment from jmapb
Hello Gorbs. Please don't rename our subway lines without discussing the change with local osm mappers FIRST. Probably the best place to discuss this sort of thing would be the Talk-us mailing list.
I'm inclined to revert this changeset.
Thanks, jmapb
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Comment from jc86035
A few months ago I standardized most of the station names to uniformly remove the (A,C,E) brackets per tagging conventions (as well as fixing other misc. things like en dashes). Before it was quite inconsistent, so I made the sort-of-mechanical edits and I don't think anyone complained about it.
I think adding the line names as decorative Unicode characters could work but I'm not sure if that would be breaking the tagging convention. I'm also not a New Yorker so I'll probably leave any sort of decision on this to others.
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Comment from jc86035
On an aesthetic level, the nine extra decorative characters on Times Square–42nd Street don't look as bad as I thought they would (and the font support helps), although they do take up quite a bit of extra space.
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Comment from jc86035
(my previous changeset: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/54979609)
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Comment from charlesgorby
Hello everyone!
Thanks for describing your concerns and comments! I am going to the NYC page to discuss changing metro names. I liked how the unicode fit into the relative logos for the lines. I saw some leftover examples of (A, C, 1) but fixed them. I am planning to overall fix every line to its respective unicode after getting authorization to do so. Thanks! -
Comment from jmapb
Mapnik seems to support these circled unicode chars pretty well --though the labels at zoom 14 do take up a lot of space at complex stops.
Browser support is lacking for the circled letters though: https://imgur.com/a/WU3WtaV (these are current Windows versions of Firefox, Chrome, and IE -- I know nobody uses IE anymore, but whatever.)
Personally I'd love to see the line numbers/letters circled and in the official MTA colors, maybe starting at zoom 15 -- obviously that's a much more complex project and might be more appropriate for the Transport Layer than the default map. But this unicode renaming seems like a hacky half-measure.
What NYC page are you using for discussion?
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Comment from charlesgorby
First of all, those browsers looked outdated to me. Also, if that is a problem, there should be a way to fix it later. I'm not quite sure how to exactly find local OSM mappers or where to talk with them, but I'm currently waiting on a confirmation from the talk-transit subscribing page.
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Comment from jmapb
Firefox 60.6.1esr, Chrome 73.0.3683.103. Both current versions. (IE, whatever, who cares.)
But honestly, the real problem here is not browser support, it's that you're conflating the route's nomenclature with its logo design. It's not the "❶ Train" -- it's the "1 Train", and its logo is similar to a red ❶. It's understandable to want a map that displays the route logos next to the subway stops -- I'd love that -- but it should happen at the map rendering level, not by renaming the route to an inaccurate name that looks kinda like its logo.
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Comment from mdejean
❶ or (1) <station name> is not the name of the station. If the map does not display the `services`, that is a problem with the map renderer, not with the name.
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Comment from jmapb
Yes thanks mdejean for making that distinction clear. The routes that subway stations serve are not part of the station names -- at least not in NYC. It's a tagging-for-the-renderer hack to pretend that they are. That aside from the questions of unicode support and repurposing a textual name field for a visual logo.
I've held off on reverting this so Gorbs can discuss it on the tagging mailing list, but I will revert don't see something soon.
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Comment from Gabe DeFreitas
The name argument is very strong as the station emblems are clearly not a part of the station's name, and data representation should not be influenced by desiring a particular rendering. Maybe there could be a tag that links to a "shield" svg, for instance for subway lines, interstates, etc. Feel like this has probably been discussed at some point in the past, however. In any case, all of the circles in this edit are blue, which is emphatically wrong for any line other than A, C, E. Also Helvetica is inherently part of the emblem design as well
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Comment from jmapb
Reverted with changeset 69132555. See also changesets 69008313 and 69075100.
Ways (5)
- ❶ 168th Street (515596365), v4
- ❶ 168th Street (515596366), v3
- ❶ 🅐 🅒 168th Street (515596397), v4
- 🅐 🅒 168th Street (515596368), v3
- 🅐 🅒 168th Street (515596367), v3
- ❶ South Ferry (7080537), v2
- ❶ Cortlandt Street (7974745), v2
- NYCS - ❶ Train (364630), v42
- NYCS - ❸ Train (366784), v49
- ❶ 🅐 🅒 🅔 Canal Street (7948823), v4
- ❶ Christopher Street–Sheridan Square (7981433), v2
- ❶ ❷ ❸ 34th Street - Penn Station (7582380), v3
- 🅝 🅠 🅡 🅦 42nd Street - Times Square (7127750), v4
- ❶ ❷ ❸ ❼ 🅝 🅠 🅡 🅢 🅦 42nd Street - Times Square (7453212), v3
- 🅢 42nd Street - Times Square (7127749), v3
- ❶ ❷ ❸ 42nd Street - Times Square (7127747), v3
- ❼ 42nd Street - Times Square (7127746), v3
- NYCS - 🅝 Train (366768), v67
- NYCS - 🅦 Train (6942556), v6
- NYCS - 🅡 Train (366780), v50
- NYCS - Q Train (366769), v112
- ❶ 50th Street (7582381), v3
- ❷ Wakefield-241st Street => Flatbush Avenue-Brooklyn College late nights (7575713), v9
- NYCS - 🅑 Train (366770), v114
- NYCS - 🅒 Train (366775), v45
- ❶ South Ferry (410162267), v14
- ❶ Rector Street (597928296), v9
- ❶ WTC Cortlandt (597928297), v18
- ❶ ❷ ❸ Chambers Street (597928298), v10
- ❶ Franklin Street (597937490), v8
- ❶ Canal Street (5106257819), v4
- 🅐 🅒 🅔 Canal Street (2155551103), v2
- 🅐 🅒 🅔 Canal Street (2151385466), v2
- ❶ Canal Street (2151385464), v3
- ❶ Canal Street (2151385465), v3
- ❶ Houston Street (597937487), v10
- ❶ Christopher Street–Sheridan Square (5106257816), v5
- ❶ ❷ ❸ 14th Street (5350574432), v2
- ❶ 18th Street (597937489), v11
- ❶ 23rd Street (597937481), v10
- ❶ 28th Street (597937482), v10
- ❶ ❷ ❸ 34th Street–Penn Station (5106082760), v4
- ❶ ❷ ❸ ❼ 🅝 🅠 🅡 🅢 🅦 42nd Street–Times Square (5106082761), v3
- NYCS - 🅠 Train (2052618477), v13
- ❶ 50th Street (597937484), v13
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