Hi craghead, thanks for your comments.

I certainly agree that the Potato Famine is a major event in the UK that needs to be recorded in this listing. I also concur to the large presence of Irish in Nottingham (in St Anns where I live, it is mostly southern Irish).

The beginning of the Railways was in 1825 (the SDR), and together with the massive increase in building + services (electric, water + sewage) there would have been vast demand for Navigators which, of course, the Irish became famous as exemplifying.

I’ve already begun to add the Famine to this listing. However, I’m doing it in my way, which is a comprehensive manner, so I’ve started with “Early to 1199” and am recording the beginning of the Roman Catholic religion, the difficult interaction with Celtic Christianity, then the nightmare of Irish & English relations. That will keep me going for a while. In the meantime, I’ve already spent a month on collecting all the Caves in Nottingham, and am also checking & finalising them (currently, 521 sets of caves).

Thanks again, - AK

The issues arise like this:–

1. Start an internet site (Mapillary) that seeks to store crowd-sourced GIS-registered photographs & interact with a crowd-sourced map (OSM)
2. Promote Mapillary by ability to improve OSM by means of Artificial Intelligence (AI) interrogation of stored photos (eg pick out turn lanes, speed-signs, etc.), placing Mapillary URLs within map data, and so on
3. Succinctly:
   • OSM mappers begin to think of Mapillary as Open-Source just as OSM is open-source, but Mapillary is not open-source.
   • storage is now dirt-cheap
   • GIS-registered photos are now easy & cheap to take
   • Mapillary stores it’s map-tiles on it’s servers
   • OSM mappers + others rush to add millions of photos in to Mapillary
      

Thus, Mapillary rides OSM’s back to success.

I ran a website for a decade & made sure to prevent all hot-linking of images from that site (Google gets around such preventions by providing a false referer for each image that they request). I knew that computing was fundamentally based upon deception when I discovered that computer monitor size was based upon corner-to-corner measurements, including dead-screen (outlawed by USA Federal statute 31-FR-3342 in 1966). Thus, I’m neither surprised nor outraged at their actions. I’m simply damn disappointed at being fooled into committing hours of the only thing that I have freely available — my time — to end up with hundreds of dead-links instead of pictures.

• blocking hotlinking is relatively normal
• I see no reasons to be outraged here

I’m not outraged. I’m just very disappointed in them.

Mapillary have changed their policy. Questions were previously asked of Mapillary “can I show my photo on a different site” & the answer was to point at the button to download and suggest to use the url for that on the foreign site. I tried it out, and it worked nicely. So I uploaded several 10s of thousands of photos to their site. Further, I promoted them like crazy, providing masses of links to their site, and placing lots & lots of links in these diaries.

Their policy has changed from hosting freely-given photos on the basis that they will be treated as OpenSource material, to being (effectively) Mapillary’s property.

Their suggestion now is to use an iframe, which (just like youtube) allows just a small frame to be shown initially. But not at all in these diaries.

The timeout seems to be just a few days. Their help speaks of renewing timed-out tokens. I’ll find a way to frustrate their frustrating me, but I want to finish my current mapping first.

Tried it within the diary exactly as you & the v4 API suggested using this src, but it just will not work within an <iframe> (nothing whatsoever shows in the screen, and ditto within these Comments). I also tried it within a <div> & within a <span> (with an <img> internal to them) & also with a bare <img>. With those it shows a broken image icon + the border when applicable.

The entire point of an <iframe> is to provide foreign soil within the webpage (I think of them as a similar notion to that of a foreign consulate within a country), and clearly OSM will not allow foreigners upon their soil, and Mapillary will not allow the photos that they host to display otherwise, so we are at a standoff.

$ locate josm-latest
…
/usr/share/josm-latest/josm-1.5.svn18513.jar
$ cat /usr/share/applications/org.openstreetmap.josm-latest.desktop
# (my changes have been reversed)
$ head -1 /usr/bin/josm-latest
#!/usr/bin/env bash

So OK, let’s see if it works now.

It does! (although I did not use it in anger, since I really need to get some sleep).

Well done, and thank you.

PS I’ve never tried this, but would setting the SHEBANG line dynamically using *which bash” actually work?

Anyway, many thanks for the fix.

Thanks for the link to the API v4 documentation.

I’ve recently made another diary explicitly about these Mapillary changes see diary/399529. The photos in my diaries are all Download photos, which do NOT feature in the API help page. Those IDs are way more extreme than the example above, and there is no evidence so far that the URLs have rotated (the photo in this diary post has an identical URL to the original, I have simply refreshed it on the Mapillary page, when it began to show again. The API talks of Refresh Flow & access tokens expiring. I suspect that something similar is being utilised). I mentioned an older page in my diary whilst within the Nottinghamshire Archive building & the gentleman there was able to bring up a page & see the photos (which had been refreshed recently).

I’ll try the method suggested tomorrow (I need to get to bed!) & report back (in fact I just tried it in this comment & no deal; here is the url as a link to a new page.

The images in your diary that are stored on lysios fail to appear within my browser. The images themselves will show if I place the url direct within my browser, but not within the diary (the url shows instead, although I cannot then copy it).

I am going to attempt to show one of the images (autocoll2) within this comment (no, it does not show, and neither does the alt-text):

I suspect that lysios.free.fr may be the problem, although it has to be said that the html + css on this site are absolute pants).

I notice that lysios.free.fr will NOT provide the img under HTTPS, so maybe that is the problem (is osm is silently changing the HTTP img-url to HTTPS)? I do not know, but they do not appear.

The images themselves look great.

Hi berrybine

Two things:

1. Different countries order their dates differently; therefore “01/07/2020” could be interpreted as “1 July 2020” or “7 January 2020”. It is perhaps better to get into the habit of using the Japanese order of “2020-07-01” (yyyy-mm-dd), which is less open to misinterpretation & also provides a natural ordering.
2. With these diaries folks expect it to be a Diary entry that is OSM-related. Do that until folks get used to you, and then occasionally you can go off-topic & still keep your readers. Just never, ever spam.

Overlords? Long past? Where on earth do you live, kucai?

You are not alone in having to fight bureaucracy. Ordnance Survey were originally a branch of the military. Now a private company, they have to be arm-wrestled for every scrap of information (and they are the sole possessors of).

To date they (and others) have been instructed by the government to provide free access to all UK-wide:

• Postcode centroids
• Borderline information
  (GPS for Coastline, Country & County lines)
• Road information
  (GPS & names)

They still withhold address information.

Hi kucai

This is something that I’ve struggled with also, and particularly now that we have all been in Covid-19 lockdown, and I do not even have a metres-bad GPS track to rely on. The solution that I have been relying on in the UK follows this decision matrix:

1. The UK roads have all been imported from an accurate Ordnance Survey DB (or at least we hope that it is accurate - my own cross-reference investigations from BorderLine imports say ‘yes’, as in the common situations where a border follows a road, river or other feature it has normally matched perfectly)
2. The English are obsessed with roundabouts, both small & large
3. When the Borders (mentioned above) have passed through such roundabouts it has frequently been straight through the middle
4. The roundabouts provide an excellent target when looking through imagery, much like firing an arrow (I live in Nottingham)

The upshot (pun intended) of the above is that I correct the Imagery used to the nearest roundabout that I can find. It seems to work well so far.

These could be quickly adjusted using maps

That statement needs to be heavily modified: almost all modern maps can NOT be used to update the OSM map. That is due to the copyrights deployed within modern maps.

This is the relevant statement from the OSM Copyright Statement:

OSM contributors are reminded never to add data from any copyrighted sources (e.g. Google Maps or printed maps) without explicit permission from the copyright holders.

somewhat based on UK English rather than real English words

“real”???

Not going to even attempt to make further comment, other than to point out the self-parody involved in the language construction. And no, England does not own English, any more than any other locality that makes use of English owns it.

The en:Wikipedia page on Meadow is pretty damn good.

There is zero connection to streams/rivers, though they would need decent water supply & drainage to function well as a meadow (the first not usually a problem in Ireland nor England, of course). In connection with Victorian times they would often be odd fields close to a city that remained as common-land after enclosure, and thus functioned as places to stroll & take exercise on a Sunday.

They had a vital function as sources of Hay to feed the animals in Winter. In modern times they are often deliberate sources of greensward sown with meadow flowers as the premium sod for the back-garden.

Excellent stuff.

As far as I’m concerned, what you are doing is exactly what OSM is designed for. There are possibly thousands of years of history in those farmer’s names. And to think that it has come down through word-of-mouth only. This is getting like the bard’s folk-tales.

So this is correct, then?

name:cy=Ysgol Uwchradd Aberteifi
name:en=Cardigan Secondary School

Any idea as to the Operator? Would it be Welsh Assembly or local Council or something else?

@spiregrain:

I suspect BT will take longer

Just 9 schools in the East Riding of Yorkshire have an EduBase ID mapped, and (so far) almost none have contacts nor addresses fully mapped. So, I suspect that HU may take longer than BT. If I get to the end & you are still going, then I’ll start at the end & map towards you.

This is definitely a marathon rather than a sprint. It’s amazing that so much much has been mapped, and yet as soon as you dip your toe in it is obvious that so much remains to be done.

I’m pleased that I switched. I was enjoying exploring the NI countryside, even if only vicariously, but EY is the place I was born, brought up in & made a good living from as a young man. It’s 40+ years since I travelled it and, even if on occasions bitter sweet, a pleasure to revisit.

@spiregrain:
I see little point in 2 of us using the same site (mathmos.net) to do the same work - far too much chance of interfering with each other. So, I’ve wrapped up the table that I was working on in the BT postcode section, and will switch to HU instead (my home town was Hull, and I spent my youth working in the East Yorkshire region).

Hi spiregrain

The charts and tables here https://osm.mathmos.net/schools/progress/BT/

I’m making use of the same site, and came across one of the schools that you had mapped (St Oliver Plunkett Primary School at BT11).

For NI I’m finding these three to be useful additions to mathmos.net:

• http://apps.education-ni.gov.uk/appinstitutes/default.aspx
• https://www.eani.org.uk/search-schools
• www.schoolswebdirectory.co.uk

The first two are Northern Ireland-specific school search sites, whilst the last one occasionally has web-address URLs that the first one does not. However, I’m often left with a generic web-search for the URL (I find Google maps to be best for that).

I’m making a point of entering full Contact & Address details (using the JOSM presets) as that is precisely what will be searched for (and why, imo, OSM maps can be useful).

Thank you Jude & Alan for scratching my intellectual itch. I never thought of Northern Ireland as an equestrian centre, but I guess that that is just my normal ignorance. I’ll go back & fix the mapping to try & reflect that.

@Polyglot:
The wiki on Site Relations says ‘use multi for schools’ (see one of the other recent diaries - I forget which one - for proper quote & url). That seems conclusive to me.

Site seems to have all the disadvantages & none of the advantages of Multi. So, what about them?