Changeset: 130767955
Added Toki Pona names for most countries
Closed by andrebacon2
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (18570 en) |
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source | https://wikipesija.org/wiki/kulupu:ma |
Discussion
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Comment from Diacritic
Hi Andre Bacon,
If I understand the wikipedia article about Toki Pona correctly, this is a constructed language with no native users?
A similar edit introducing Klingon names for countries was not well received; would you be able to explain where these translations come from and what they are used for?
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Comment from ZeLonewolf
The source provided is CC-BY 4.0 and must be reverted because the license is incompatible with OSM.
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Comment from SomeoneElse_Revert
This changeset has been reverted fully or in part by changeset 130781188 where the changeset comment is: Reverting some made-up names in a made-up language. See https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/130767955
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Comment from andrebacon2
Hey Diacritic,
Although Toki Pona is indeed a constructed language, it is not a fictional language like Klingon, as it was not created as part of a fictional setting, and was instead created for real-life communication. I have seen localized names in other constructed languages such as Esperanto, Lojban, and Volapuk, so I see no reason as to why Toki Pona cannot be included, especially since all ISO-recognized constructed languages (except Esperanto) have no known native speakers either.
As for the origin of the names, I mainly sourced them from the article I linked for my own convenience. However, almost all of those names originate from suggestions in "Toki Pona, The Language of Good", one of the primary books on the language, published by the language's creator herself. These translations are commonly used within the community to refer to these places.
To address the sourcing issue, I'm rather new to editing OpenStreetMap, and wasn't quite sure how to properly cite non-internet sources in my edits. I think that using the book as a source rather than the article would fit OSM's policies much better, and I probably should have done it in the first place.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
Hello andrebacon2,
There are a few issues here. One is that (as has already been mentioned) the source isn't licence-compatible with OSM, so it has to go for that reason. Another is that OSM is a map of real things in the real world, as https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Verifiability makes clear. While it's possible that I might be able to go to the Pitcairn Islands and find a couple of people (among the 50 there) fluent in this language, I somehow doubt it.
Before importing data such as this into OSM it's important that you follow the guidelines set out at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines , in particular https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines#Step_2_-_Community_Buy-in . Once you've done that, and the community is broadly supporting of your import, you're welcome to re-attempt it.
Best Regards,
Andy
(from OSM's Data Working Group) -
Comment from andrebacon2
This makes a lot more sense. However, do I really have to go through the import process for manual edits? No automation was used when transcribing these names, and the wiki pages seem focused on transcribing databases automatically.
Also, I thought I addressed the original source in my previous comment? If the book isn't compatible either, that's okay, but I'd just like to know if it is or not before moving forward.
Either way, thanks for a clear starting point. -
Comment from SomeoneElse
> If the book isn't compatible either, that's okay
A book published in the last few years is extremely unlikely to be licence-compatible. However, if you know under which it was made available under you can read https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Licence/Licence_Compatibility and see if it does actually fit.
Even if it is, you'll still need to follow https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Import/Guidelines before importing the data.
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Comment from Xvtn
While I do personally think the data added is of questionable utility, I agree with andrebacon2 that it doesn't make sense to require going through the import process if edits are being done by hand (meaning, each change is being checked by a human.) Isn't the line between import and non-import that some edits are being made without individual human review?
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Comment from ZeLonewolf
This is a geographically wide-scale edit of items copied from an external database. That's an import in my book. Looking at each item manually to check that it was copied correctly out of the book doesn't turn it into a survey.
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Comment from SomeoneElse
@Xvtn One of the benefits of going through the import process is to discuss whether or not the data is of "questionable utility", as you put it, as well as discussing the licence. Clearly in this case the person adding the data isn't physically visiting each country in turn, finding a "Toki Pona" speaker and asking them what the name of the country is - they're copying (in a fairly mechanical manner) from another source. Supposing the other source had one of the names misprinted - how would anyone know?
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Comment from Xvtn
That makes sense. Thanks for the insights @ZeLonewolf and @SomeoneElse.
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