Changeset: 91067563
Clean up some pointless railway tags from abandoned/disused tracks between Marcinkonys (.lt) and Uzbieraž (.ua)
Closed by stefanct
Tags
created_by | JOSM/1.5 (16812 en) |
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source | Ma brain, bing and some CC photos |
Discussion
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Comment from Tomas Straupis
Why was maxspeed removed from highway=track ways (for example https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/247268430)?
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Comment from stefanct
Because I was convinced that they were wrongly tagged due to the abandoned railway track "underneath" them. I deem it very unlikely that there is an actual speed limit of 70km/h on this dirt road (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Peterburgas-Var%C5%A1uva_netoli_Kabeli%C5%B3.JPG) when there are only a few other paved highways tagged with maxspeeds in the vicinity at all: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Y7K
However, I see now that the same user (a newbie) has tagged some other tracks with maxspeed=70 such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/785504785
Apparently, I also missed https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/254646926 which is part of the abandoned railway.I think that these are also wrong (and my removal correct). Thus I would contact that user now unless you can share some additional insights.
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Comment from Tomas Straupis
I have talked with raceadmin live a number of times. He's adding info to fill this map: https://speed.openmap.lt They do a live checking of racing route beforehand and then update OpenStreetMap accordingly. maxspeed of 70 looks right. The only thing left from railway is an embankment.
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Comment from stefanct
Oh! Thank you very much for catching that. I should have been more careful, sorry. I have reverted the deletion of maxspeed on the 4 tracks: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/91108707
I am still a bit puzzled how speed limits work in Lithuania though. The English Wikipedia shows something that would be aligned with having a 70km/h limit on these kind of roads (gravel roads outside settlements): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_Lithuania
(which is a bit scary to me - even more so if they are used for racing :)However, I was stupid enough to try to decipher the actual law that is referenced there with google translate. This is obviously not the best way to read legal texts (is there any? :) but as far as I can tell the 70km/h do not stem from this text. It mentions this number three times but not in the context of normal motorcars on gravel roads. There is only one speed limit for roads outside settlements no matter its surface and that's 90km/h.
So just out of curiosity I wonder where the 70km/h come from a) in Wikipedia, b) in these cases/in the real world. Do I read the law wrongly or is there another one or are there physical signs by the road? How is this handled in practice in general?
Thanks again!
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Comment from Tomas Straupis
70kmh is an actual official limit for unpaved roads outside of built-up areas. The law makes no difference on types of "unpaved" so technically you can drive 70kmh on forest tracks ;-) Of course there is an "catch all" phrase of "according to safety situation". In practice I haven't seen or heard about anybody driving 70kmh on forest tracks, but that former railway is actually ok, it is straight and level.
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Comment from stefanct
No, that's my point: the 70km/h are not the official limit outside settlements - that's 90km/h and as you say they make no difference in that law between paved and unpaved. https://www.e-tar.lt/portal/lt/legalAct/TAR.BBE7D61A0416 under "XV. Važiavimo greitis" 175.1. So my guess would be that it is simply common practice to say 20km/h less makes the gravel roads safe enough "according to the situation" (being a gravel road). But are there traffic signs stating this explicitly or is this just thought to be "known" by everybody?
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Comment from Tomas Straupis
To my knowledge 70kmh IS the official limit. Although I haven't red/seen driving rules for ~25 years :-) And I never heard "20 less on gravel for safety" (on forest track's it can be unsafe to go 30kmh).
OK I googled and the first result (https://automokyklos.lt/ket/keliu-eismo-taisykles/vaziavimo-greitis) point 131.1 (and others) says that it is 90kmh on asphalt or concrete roads and everywhere else - 70kmh. -
Comment from stefanct
I see. There was some change of the law sometime and I am not able to navigate to the right page on the e-tar.lt page but now it makes sense, thank you. It would make sense to tag these things together with https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:source:maxspeed There is no tag in the wiki for this 70km/h rule. Maybe the Lithuanian mappers want to introduce something like source:maxspeed=LT:unpaved or similar. I just checked and there is exactly one way with that tag already: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/169238814
In any case my work of raising dust is complete I think ;) Sorry and thank you again for noticing my error.
Ways (12)
- 9 (111595964), v10
- 9 (237154612), v12
- 9 (237154613), v6
- 247268430, v5
- 247268432, v5
- 247273517, v5
- 247273519, v6
- 1 (259169319), v4
- 273024611, v7
- 273024612, v7
- 446919596, v4
- 2 (713177612), v4
Nodes (1)
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