Hi:

This is just a quick update to address all the CCI who believe it is essential to have comprehensive and descriptive comments.

What do they really do, and who are they for? I spent a little time scanning a few hundred, and they are all basically useless. Additionally, a comment could be in an indecipherable language and totally unrelated to what was actually changed.

I have over 12 thousand edits maybe averaging 300 members. With maybe 10 members per documentable change, at 2 minutes to document each change, that is 12 000300/102/60 equals 12 000 hours. Anyone possessing even a minimal IQ can appreciate that the task is insurmountable for any productive mapper.

If obstruction and obfuscation is the goal, commenting is part of that solution.

thanks, Baden

Hi Andy and DWG:

I did not take composing this response lightly. I have always mapped assuming good faith and intelligence with co-mappers, both which have seemingly diminished.

If I got a message about a changeset, I first checked the author’s edit count (i.e. experience), and whether they were locally mapping. You can visit my message list to see that I went well out of my way to address legitimate queries.

recent examples: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/105906567 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/116631815

If the author has minimal edits and no local presence, I will not encourage trolls. I especially detest, as probably many others also do, bird-doggers who have zero interest in the local mapping, and whose total focus is on policing, often using external tools. I do not know of any individuals who enjoy being watched over their shoulders.

A perfect example of this is: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/118228668

The author had unbelievably zero edits and brazenly stated, “I’m sure that you’ve been asked several times”, when in actuality, I never had been.

Another mapper joined the recent fray from nowhere. It looks like his modus operandi is already recognised: https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=824528

And another with zero edits: https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/116970678

Andy, as for the “asked more than once previously”, whom are you referring to? I only saw that one message a few months ago. You insinuated that there was a huge hue and cry. A bunch of BS on some external blog does not cut it.

As for the comments, the two machines I predominately use for OSM do not have keyboards, so even writing a few words is a chore. Additionally, it impossible to edit those comments, even when they are misplaced and incorrect. Thus, I cannot imagine those comments having any real value except for the pseudo policia.

As for the sources, I am not sure if you know, but the imagery source used is automatically added to the OSM changeset database. Additionally, I frequently checked and used all the imagery available on my editors, so each node or way could have had multiple exclusive sources. If I used external imagery, such as Sentinel2, I normally attributed it.

Until May 3, everything seemed to be fine. I had been contentedly and diligently mapping the same way for years, without any objection. I have over 12 000 edits, which probably consumed well over 10 000 hours of my volunteered and dedicated time. I prided myself on top quality mapping and mapping entirely new routes, notably railways.

On May 3, one rude, obnoxious and ignorant individual named “Herman Lee” instigated and propagated this recent shitshow, and that should be readily apparent to any competent person. Why did he or you not respond to my queries when I asked why he sent 8 messages in less than 90 minutes, all containing large inexplicable binaries? I still consider his actions nefarious, especially considering a zero explanation.

Andy, you sent me a (DWG) message to respond, and then when I went to do so, I found you had blocked my account. I hope you can discern the ludicrous irony there? Maybe you think that that most OSM dweebs are spending most their time in their mother’s basements dedicated to OSM? I already know I spent (wasted?) too much OCD time on OSM, and my intermittent connections and other real responsibilities have prevented any more.

As for my guide lines and circles that I have been using for many years, it became acceptable to me when I noticed that OSM was riddled with millions of metres of “Hires” ways. I initially and ironically was deleting some of them, as I erroneously thought they were blatant commercial promotion for jobs, such as “Yahoo Hires” and “Bing Hires”, versus the actually intended term ‘high resolution’.

When I mapped new features, especially railway curves, I initially estimated the size and radius, and then with updated imagery, sized and aligned them more accurately. Maybe you did not know, but railway curves have a constant radius, which is well mapped using a template circle. The beauty was, if the placement was off, I only had to quickly move the line or circle and all the attached nodes moved with it. Conversely, each node would need to be individually moved, which would take substantial effort and time.

I also extensively used Sentinel2Explorer on new railway projects. Occasionally, I temporarily added the “highway=path” tag to make the way visible on Sentinel2Explorer, which AFAIK, was the only publicly accessible ‘real time’ and recent imagery. I could then get visible overlay feedback on OSM ways inside Sentinel2Explorer after the change propagated. Often, clear images could take weeks or longer. With what I did, there was no lasting visibility on publicly available maps. After I was satisfied with my way’s accuracy, I deleted the guidelines. Maximal mapping accuracy was consistently my objective, not adhering to a few valueless directives.

I would be interested if a more proficient individual than I could suggest any better method to map new ways without existing imagery.

My temporary additions contrasted to the proliferation of millions of incorrectly imported hash tag highway paths and other objects destined to persist indefinitely and which are actually non-existent. You seemed to have been able to delete most my ~thousand remaining guidelines in three seconds, which indicates it was not actually a problem. The fact that drawing each circle guideline consumed 30 minutes or more of my time was immaterial. I do not think DWG will be addressing with the same vigour all the useless “hires” lines and millions of errant “paths”.

My enjoyment value had been steady declining. A year or two ago, my WWW browsers stopped functioning to edit OSM. A month or two ago, my WWW browsers stopped functioning to even view OSM. A side effect from this, is I cannot even respond to emailed OSM links, as I have to first obtain another computer to view OSM, for which I first need to forward the emailed queries to.

Minimal appreciation and maximal policing along with an autocratic approach to any differences has culminated to where I think it is best that I take a sustained, and possibly permanent, vacation from this project.

thanks, Baden